Judy Jaramillo Argumedo first came to me in 2009, when I was just out of my apprenticeship and starting out my career. Fourteen years later I am tattooing this powerhouse of a woman regularly. 

During these years she has become the principal of a school, after decades of being a teacher. Out in the world she is known for visiting the homes of her students and making herself accessible to them and their families,  and in my studio I know her for being a person who shares honestly and deeply, somebody I can relax with while working on, someone I laugh with and someone I can offer my full creativity to, because we trust each other. 

Judy talks about her indigenous and Latinx roots, and what it has been like to be a tattooed woman of color building a career in education. 

I am stoked to be a safe space for Judy. 
Thank you for finding me all those years ago, friend. 

 

Speaker 1: 0:01

Cool, okay, say something again, please. 

Speaker 2: 0:05

It's kind of cool to see, like where you live. 

Speaker 1: 0:09

I know right, it could give you a little video tour, okay. 

Speaker 2: 0:11

It's kind of like I like it, like I'm in celebrities house, you know. Like you know, mike is free. 

Speaker 1: 0:18

Yes, that is my house. Act there, we'll lose out of view. Hmm, you know what she looks like. Hello, my darlings, hello dear listeners, I'm here with my client and friend, judy. I've been tattooing Judy since 2009. I just looked it up and originally came to me in 2009, I believe, a black and blue and then we took a break for a few years and then you emailed me again, I think in 2016, and you said remember the piece you did on me. I want more work, and so I've been tattooing you Pretty much my entire career. At this point, wow, I didn't know that. Well, you introduce yourself. Just your name, as much of your name as you want to share your pronouns, I don't know what else, where you're from geographically or spiritually, and your favorite breakfast that you might like to have most days, those are, those are the ones that I like to share Most days. 

Speaker 2: 1:47

Oh, those are. Those are all pretty easy, except for the last one, let me see. So my name is Judy. How do I know I don't give a man though I go by she and her More what I'm geographically from like so many different places, but I usually call Los Angeles my home, specifically the little town called Pico Rivera. But I'm also from New Mexico and I like to think that my family kind of is all over the state. Geographically, I live here in the Bay Area and I live in Palo Alto, palo Alto, los Altos, right next to Palo Alto, but I don't consider myself a Bay Area person. I think I've been here for like 14, 15 years. I am a woman of color because you know, on podcasts that doesn't come out, you can't see me but I'm definitely a woman of color. I am Indigenous and Latina and you know different. I have a little some other different ethnicities, but those are like the two main ethnicities that I go by. And spiritually I don't believe in God, I would consider myself an atheist. However, I do believe that there are like forces in the universe that are guiding and that there are things that we can't explain, and I'm open to you know like I think there's still spirits here and I think there's spirit in everything. So that's where I am spiritually, but I definitely don't believe in like the one God system. 

Speaker 1: 3:35

Cool. Oh my favorite, I'm having a breakfast. I prefer to have most mornings. 

Speaker 2: 3:42

So I really so, so boring. I like Greek yogurt. It's key lime pie. Greek yogurt is my favorite breakfast, but I don't, but like I haven't had it for like a long time, but I don't know. I used to have sweet rice. 

Speaker 1: 4:01

They call it Roscoe Lace you know it's like a rice porridge kind of right. 

Speaker 2: 4:06

Yeah, and I know some people use it like as like dessert, but that was probably like my favorite. My grandma used to make like a really big pot and we would have it, but I haven't had that in a while, so I'm going to say that's my all time favorite, but right now it's like Greek yogurt, something really light. I'm not a big breakfast person, I'm more of a lunch. I love lunch. 

Speaker 1: 4:29

OK, you have your coffee, your coffee person. 

Speaker 2: 4:32

I'm a coffee person. I'm having like coffee, like right now to decaf, just because I love the smell and the taste and everything. But I can't have like coffee this late. But I love coffee. I have a big cup of coffee every morning. 

Speaker 1: 4:44

Cool, yeah, I would not sleep without coffee right now. Well, tell me so. Tell me about your journey with tattoos. Like, as I said earlier, you know I've been tattooing for Fifteen years coming upon and you've been coming to me for like 14 of those years. So Tell me about your journey. Not every piece you have I did, but I did a lot of your pieces. But tell me about your journey with tattoos over time. What has meant to you? Maybe why you feel the need to keep coming and getting tattooed over and over again? 

Speaker 2: 5:19

Yeah, it is. It is kind of like a. I feel like it's kind of like a healing thing for me now mentally. But so when I was growing up, I grew up, a lot of my family members had tattoos on both sides of my family. On my mother's side, there definitely were people who were like in gangs and, you know, I would say, criminals as well. However, I didn't always know that side of them. I knew them as like carrying uncles, you know, carrying aunts and cousins and people who were really special to me, but they did have a lot of tattoos and so I saw them not as a negative thing. And then I really, I really always kind of like them. And I did have a lot of family members who went into prison and when I was going to college and they were like smart, the smartest people I mean, I was the first person to graduate from college in my family, but I definitely was not the smartest. They were like super smart. They just didn't have the opportunities. And so when I went to college my first year, I started volunteering once a month to go to Vacaville Prison and work with inmates and I really wanted to do that work. However, just because my family was affiliated with that I was a little worried they might connect me Right. But I also talked to a lot of the inmates like about like what tattoos meant to them and I just kind of always really like, just just like that whole idea of like having art on your body and really pushing away from, like you know, like the Mona Lisa and all these arts that last like forever, forever and ever, and I wanted to have something that like art to carry around with us. Or you know, that was temporary. I just like, sometimes, things that are temporary. I think there's a lot of beauty in that. So then I wanted to set temporary like temporary in the way of like the body is temporary and that that's how to use a temporary. 

Speaker 1: 7:34

Is that we can get that? That's I mean like our existence here is not like forever, Right, you know but you know people always like this is forever, it has to be perfect, and I think that's really funny because it's the most temporary thing Potentially that we create. 

Speaker 2: 7:48

Well, that I mean like life is temporary. I mean, in the scheme of things, we're here for like a second, you know sure. 

Speaker 1: 7:57

But you know, like a lot of people could think of their their life, right, like that's something I kept hearing when I was coming up and tattooing, right, people would be like it's forever, it has to be a certain way, I have to have it, just right. Right, and I was. There was a tattoo artist at my old shop who did a tattoo I don't know exactly who was. It just had stencil in like the pile of trash, but the stencil said this tattoo shall pass. Oh really, it was so great yeah. 

Speaker 2: 8:27

I'm like I know I love that. Well, I mean, I mean, I definitely can see why people like think that, like people who are like striving for perfection and you know they want to like get their their money's worth for like forever. But I don't know, I don't, I don't, I don't think that my perspective is always like what people think. It is, you know, but I definitely think it's temporary. You know, people are like, oh my God, tattoos are going to be on you like forever, and I'm like, well, it could change, you know, and like it's, it's not like forever, I could change it if I want. I want, you know, and people change, things change, but like our existence is super temporary. So I think it's temporary art and I guess I like I, like I said, I really push back against. I mean, I know there's beautiful pieces of art, like I love artists. They, like you know, follow a lot and everything and their work is just, like you know, immortalized forever and I don't know why I just don't like that. There's just something about it that just bothers me, like people who go and stand in line to see the Mona Lisa and everything, and it's probably lost its meaning and people have put so much into that, because it's like that's a forever thing, and I don't want that. 

Speaker 1: 9:55

I think I wonder if what people find so compelling about something like the Mona Lisa it's less even that it's a forever thing and more that so many millions of people have seen it. I think people like the idea of being one of many that are having this very human experience of looking at this very specific piece of art. I mean, I wonder if that's what it is that people are, just like this thing has been known through the ages and this thing was created like centuries before I was born and now I get to see it Like there's some connection with humanity through that. I've never seen it, so I don't know and I don't have a dream to go to Paris and go to the Louvre and see that piece. I don't care, but I wonder if that's what it is. 

Speaker 2: 10:36

Maybe I think so, but I definitely don't have that desire. So I think maybe I'm just not getting it sometimes. I mean there are definitely things that I want to see in the world and I know lots of people have seen them, but definitely not that. So I think it's something that maybe I just don't understand or I'm just not getting that perspective. But for me this is like art on my body and I wanted to get a tattoo like a long time ago, I mean before I even went to you, and I think I got my first tattoo maybe a year or two before I went to go see you. But I had went through like a hard time just emotionally. I was in a relationship and it disintegrated. Then it got back together and I think that. And then I started my career as a teacher and just because there had been a lot of loss, a really close person to me had committed suicide and I think I was kind of lost and I think I got into oh my God, I have to do like get the house and I have to have like the kids and that whole trajectory which I had been like rebelling against like my whole teenage life and I had known I didn't believe in God since I was like 11 and my parents were really upset about it, but I stood by it. But then sometimes I think, when you go through like a trauma or something, it changes your perspective, and not always in a good way. You think like I missed something or maybe I'm on the wrong path, and I think I did like the whole American dream, you know. And so that tattoo was not part of that. That definitely was like you know, alternative. And then I don't know, like something just clicked in me and I was like I am not happy. I just wasn't happy. So I sold our house. I was like I don't wanna own the house, I don't believe in, like owning property, I don't believe in the earth. And I sold my house and I was like I need to be who, I am happy, and I went to go get my first tattoo. And so my first tattoo, I got a symbol of New Mexico, because it's the Zia symbol, and I got it from a visiting Japanese tattoo artist and so he didn't speak any English and there was an interpreter and he gave me a gift and it was just a wonderful experience. It really hurt. He did like an old style kind of tattooing. I didn't like super hurt, but I wanted it to be bigger and I don't think I told him that or it got lost in translation and I think I kind of like just sat with it and I was like, hmm, I was like, I was like I loved it, but it was like so small and I just remember like people kind of like in my family were like, why are you gonna do that? It was just, and I was like there was just like these expectations of me because I had been living like that life for like a good eight, nine, 10 years, almost a decade. You mean like the dream life. Yeah, I mean like doing everything and I just decided like I wanted to take my life in a different direction and I decided to change everything and I was like you know what I really want? A tattoo, because you know, to me one of my most important people in my life is my grandfather, and he was already getting a little bit ill and I was like I wanna have a tattoo to like just honor him. He came from Mexico. He was what they called a Bracero, and a Bracero is somebody who works with their backs, but it was a government program. The United States went into these states where the people were really poor and they recruited men to come over here and work in the fields and they called the Braceros and they would give out, like they'd come over here like make money and they'd like send them back. It was like the worst part of like labor and my grandpa was one of them and he came over when he was 29 years old and he met my grandmother who was 47. Oh, wow, yeah, and she had already had seven kids and her husband had been murdered. And he came over and they met, fell in love and she got pregnant and it was my mother and they got married and he was undocumented and he like got deported several times and they worked in the camps. And my other uncle, who for my mom's I mean my grandma's other kids she he was like a teamster and so he got him a job. They kind of did that whole thing. He I won't say his name, but he was a bookie for maybe like some you know teamsters, and he got my grandpa job and they got him on the way and you know they got him to like citizenship and you know the whole story. He just gave up so much and he was like the best person like in my life and I really wanted to honor him. So I got the tattoo for him, even though he was alive, because I want to honor people while they're here so that they know that I care about them. And it was hummingbird that you did. And he wrote his last name, which is Muskote, on the arm and like I don't get to see it a lot, he was on the back and I that's why I decided I was like I'm going to get like art to honor my grandfather and that's why they were all on my back because it was like a Bracero, like I didn't have to work hard, like he did like sweat, wake up at five in the morning and you know he was a migrant farm worker and then he was like a garbage man. That's the job he got. He'd wake up at five and pick up garbage, you know, all over he worked his back and I decided to honor him by putting art on my back. That was beautiful and I don't know what the tattoos did, but there was something about the whole process, like it was amazing with you. I don't know if you remember, but like you were playing like Russian I don't want to say Russian pop, like what was on the radio or I don't know you? 

Speaker 1: 17:28

I think I would play. 

Speaker 2: 17:29

You were like playing it and I had went in and I gave you the little design that my daughter had drawn and I asked if my daughter could come. She was like eighth grade, my oldest daughter, she wanted to go and you don't know. But like I was like, oh yeah, I'm going to go get a tattoo and all like my mom and everybody was like and you're going to take your daughter, she's going to like them. And I'm like and and I was like so she liked him. So you were like sure she can come in. And we sat there and it took like a while and you like to talk to us and you talk to her and you were kind of like telling her like how it goes and everything. And it was just like a wonderful experience. And I was like, oh okay, and I really really liked it and I really had wanted to get tattooed by like a woman. Like that was really important to me. Like I didn't realize I would. The first tattoo it was, you know, a Japanese and he was. He was male, but I I was very uncomfortable with it. So I wanted to get Tattooed by like a woman because, like I didn't realize what an intimate Experience it can be and I know people like walking shops and get tattoos and everything. But for me I was like this person's gonna be like touching my body, leaning on me, being in my space, and so I I Wanted to be in a, in a space that I felt safe and I didn't always feel safe with like men or like I guess I'm not gonna just say men, like cis men, and so it just was like such a like great, like experience that I decided that I wanted to continue to do it and I did take a break. And the break was it was we were like my husband and I were In the middle of like going to school. It was really like about like economics. But once I was like I have money again, I got a better job, I'm gonna go back and I'm not putting everybody through college. I had to put myself through college Because I went back to school to get my degree and I wanted to celebrate my degree by getting more tattoos. And then you've like done so many on me and my dream would be my dream tattoos is to have like one full sleeve and Like for like my whole back to be covered. 

Speaker 1: 20:13

But I guess we're getting. 

Speaker 2: 20:14

I didn't realize how much time a sleeve was gonna take. I thought it'd be done like in four sessions. I have I've learned like so much, so that's like my, like my tattoo journey. Now I'm like I am going monthly to do it and I do think it's something that I look forward to and that I guess like taking I Don't know it's. It's like for I. This sounds kind of weird, but I feel like it's my own voice, even though it's not like saying anything and I can choose like to cover up or you know, people ask and I can choose to like talk to them about it or not. But it's giving me a voice that I Didn't know I needed. Does that make sense? 

Speaker 1: 21:01

how has the experience of getting more and more tattooed Change the relationship with your body or has it affected the relationship with the body? 

Speaker 2: 21:13

Yeah, like you know, like I said, I definitely grew up like and like you know, with all these like ideals of, like you know how things should be. I don't think like that anymore at all. Like I'm trying to, you know, decolonize my whole. You know, I grew up in the American education system, so I'm trying to decolonize everything and everything that's put upon us. But I do think that getting like tattoos, like I'm not as worried as I'm getting like older, like oh, this doesn't look good, or I have to like diet, or like my I don't want to show my arms because you know, like the things, you know you go on Anything on you like tick, tock everything and they're like, oh, if you want to get rid of, like your belly, or if you want to get rid of this, and I'm like, why do? Why can't people like grow old gracefully? I'm thinking that now I didn't also, but I was like the tattoos have changed, like I'm excited to like look at my body Because like there's, like I noticed like something different than as I get older, or even as a like I'm in the sun. I'm like, oh, look like I have the lady, like her face is like a little bit darker, she looks rosier. You know it's, it's exciting. I think it's given me a much more positive body image. 

Speaker 1: 22:22

I Love that I Mean. You know you hope that as people get older and get wiser, that that happens naturally, but think tattoos helps speed it up. Yeah, I do. 

Speaker 2: 22:38

Acceptance it does, especially like you have to like it's. And this is the thing like people look at people all the time. Right, you know people like look at you and you have your own narrative, what you think that they're thinking when they look at you. And but what I think now, because I'm always like, they're like, oh, they're trying to figure out what that tattoo is. Or you know, like you know they're looking at me because this is like a beautiful piece of art, instead of like looking at me with like a negative Things. Because you know, people do stuff and I'm like, oh, they're just trying to like, figure it out. Um, and I think, where we get a little obsessed as a society of like how people view us, what people are saying when they look at us, um, and it's really hard to combat that. But with the tattoos, I'm like, oh, I just like, oh, they're looking at the tattoos and I let it go, where sometimes it's hard to let what you know things go. 

Speaker 1: 23:28

Do you have a lot of uh, random conversations in public with people who either notice your tattoos and ask questions or who have also tattoos and go like, look, check me out, I have tattoos as well. Like do you have a lot of those kinds of conversations in public? 

Speaker 2: 23:44

Um, yeah, I think so, I mean it. Like I, I have to say, um, it depends on who comes up to me if I'm going to have the conversation or not, right? So Like, if it's somebody with tattoos who comes up to me, like, I definitely have that conversation and you know, we kind of talk about it. Um, and like you know, other, like people, if they're like in, you know, in a nice way. But sometimes I think people just come up, I have to be careful. Um, I, you know, when they come up to me and I've had the Unfortunate, you know things they're like oh, what is that tattoo for? And they're like, oh, you know, and then we'll talk more. And they're like, oh, you're in education, should you be having tattoos and those conversations? I can tell when they're coming. I just like, shut them down, like those, I'm not interested in having it, I'm not interested in people like me. 

Speaker 1: 24:38

Right, totally, I mean. I also you know how unfair that is, because if you were I'm assuming so, if you were a white woman, that'd be like how cool your education, how hip of you to have tattoos, right. But if you're woman of color, there's a different association with Education, level, class, like you said. You know, like you're fit, you had family with tattoos and then, um, when you went to college and you you became like you got the american dream Kind of under your belt. Your family was like you can't have tattoos because now you've basically Risen up through the ranks of class. 

Speaker 2: 25:12

Oh, yeah, I definitely think I mean you know, um, when I was get, when I started getting the tattoos, like you know the hummingbird and stuff, and like they're hummingbirds and they're flowers, I definitely like would get questions like, oh, were you like in a gang, were you like this and I'm? And I knew I was like I know that it's because I'm a woman of color that I'm getting those. And I would tell people and they're like no, people don't ask you that, and I'm like they do people literally have never asked me that, or any white person that I know who has tattoos, so yeah, yeah, I definitely, I definitely like like, get that and um, I know your viewers can't see me, but I was like, I I'm always like that person, like, oh, you remind me of somebody, somebody. And I was like because I feel like I have a very like typical, like LA face, which I love because I think LA women are beautiful. But, um, I definitely get a lot of um, what people Like assume of like my background or you know things, when they see the tattoos, um and so for that, like I'm not there yet I'm still like I'm not there, like to when I go into interview or on meeting families for the first time, uh, because you know, I, um, uh, I'm an elementary principal. 

Speaker 1: 26:33

Um, please speak about your job. 

Speaker 2: 26:35

Yeah. So yeah, I'm a principal of an elementary school and when I go in there the first time, I do like well, we're something like long sleeve, because I do know that they're gonna like judge me and people could say like, oh Well, you shouldn't. I was like, well, being a woman of color, being a woman and then a woman of color and have tattoos, like that is gonna put me At a disadvantage and it's not right. And I don't think it's right because I, eventually, the kids see it. You know I wear short sleeves and everything. But initially I do have to like remember the society that I work in and that I live in. Like this is the air I breathe, right, and racism and all of that is in the air and I am choosing after Tuesday. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. But the first initial I, I have to be aware and I have to make like. You know, I have to do certain things and it's kind of like I feel like People of color in general it depends you know when, where you are, who come from, whatever. There are certain things that we shouldn't have to do, but we have to do in the society to like make it because I I want to be a principal. I love students. Like education. Um, I don't think education saved me. Education gave me the skills to um save myself because, um, my I kid my parents were, um my childhood was about my father was definitely like a abuser my mom, you know he abused he was domestic abuse and stuff and it was hard and I didn't want to like land up In that situation and you know um college helped me Like have my own skills and and leave right. 

Speaker 1: 28:22

Give you options. 

Speaker 2: 28:23

Right, you could get a job that's higher pay and move away, and yeah give me a lot of things, you know access to healthcare and all of that Um, but, um, you know, I still have to remember Like the world is not how I would like it to be, it's the world is not equitable, and so I still have to do certain things. So, um, I don't know, I mean, it's the kid, the kids like get it. It's like you know the kids are not going to see like my tattoos and be like I'm going to go like tattoo myself. You know that's. I think people don't realize like how accepting like kids are and like the kids will ask me and I tell them oh yeah, you know, I got it when I was like older and stuff, um, and the best question I get, um from parents is like, well, aren't you worried that your like own children are going to get tattoos? And I'm like, uh, my older daughter has a lot of tattoos and she's a very successful engineer. I don't think like they're gonna like stop you, you know. Um, yeah, it's really. Again, I feel like it's another question very much directed at you as a woman of color. 

Speaker 1: 29:31

Yeah, there's, there's a lot. I do think um. 

Speaker 2: 29:34

You know, I, I remember, like I think, when I was starting the sleeve, I was so like, okay, micah, we can't go past my elbow because I have to be able to hide my tattoos from like parents and like children. And I'm going to be start. You know, I was at the district office where it was a lot different. I was doing a lot of like, um, federal programs, and I wasn't like the face or you know, I wasn't like facing parents all the time, but I was like I'm gonna go and I was like so worried, um, and as like I got more into my career and, you know, working with kids, and I'm like, why am I worried? What, what? Like, why Can't I, as a woman of color with tattoos, walk in and do all the things that I'm doing as a principal? And then the kids will be like, hey, you can, I could be like somebody, they could Like take away those stereotypes so that when they like go somewhere and they're like you know, because, uh, they could be like, oh yeah, tattoos doesn't mean anything. My principal had tattoos and like, you know, she helped me do this, or you know she helped me do that. She was a woman of color. Because I think, like, I think representation is important and I don't want to represent like all people have tattoos, but I want to be like oh, if you have a tattoo that doesn't mean like you're in a gang, right yeah, and I mean that's, that's, you know? Along the lines of what I was saying earlier. 

Speaker 1: 30:55

Like it. It doesn't mean that anymore, but people will still assume that if you're not white Seemingly from you know the conversations we've had yeah, so, so yes, as you said, like that you shouldn't have to, but you do have to I assume that people will judge you in certain ways and treat you differently in certain ways and so you have to kind of like get ahead of that. And uh, how fucked up and unfair that is and how different that experience is when you're in a gang, how different that experiences for people of color versus white people. You know and I mostly tattoo white people Because that's mostly who has the disposable income, the I don't know what other resources that lead them to me in some shape or form. 

Speaker 2: 31:42

Yeah, I mean I, I I think that's like, I mean it, just, I mean it makes me sad, but I'm not surprised. Um. However, though, I do see like a lot more people like with tattoos now, you know, like in education I mean, I'm talking about education. In education, I think I'm seeing a lot more people, um, like you know, have them, um, and I think sometimes when parents see that I have them, then if they have them, they're not like I don't know they're. I feel like when I like show them and I'm like, oh, you know, like I'm in education and I'm, like you know, doing all this or whatever it gives people who May not have like the courage to kind of you know what I mean other people of color to kind of come out and kind of like you know, uh, like do it and um. But in my head I'm like, why wouldn't you want, like this is beautiful, like I have like all these like beautiful flowers and I have like my new gecko, which I'm like obsessed with, um, like it's, you know, it's Like beautiful and it you know it's your body. But, of course, like I'm like, why should anybody tell me what to do with my body? 

Speaker 1: 33:03

Yeah, yeah, representation super matters. You know, I, when I was helping raise my steps on more on the day to day level and I would take him to school and pick him up, I would get there and I'd be the only person with tattoos and I always felt so weird, you know, like I just never wanted to be a part of the community. I didn't want to get to know any other parents because I felt like I was the only weirdo, like I would be there to have my short hair, I'd have my tattoos that have my alternative clothes and like it had. You know, the school had a lot of folks of color. As to teachers, the principal was a black woman, the parents were sort of, you know, varied types of folks, but everybody was very clean cut. It was a private school. So, um, yeah, it was interesting. Like maybe it was the fact that the school was private, everybody had more money than usual. Like you know, he my, my kid was um, had a scholarship and also his mother was paying for his schooling. So me and my partner were not really part of that kind of more money, you know, parents of the school, and so I always felt so different and I feel like my tattoos really gave me away in like the class sense of being among the parents, who were all like professionals with white color jobs. 

Speaker 2: 34:24

Oh, I mean, I can see that, especially like I do think I'm like the only. I mean um, there are not a lot of people of color where I work, um, that you know I'm one of the few um, and then to have like the tattoos, like most of the administrators, don't the people who, in education, how do you see coming up with tattoos is more of like the young student, like the young, younger teachers, I think I don't know what generation that's called, like the 25, 26 year olds, um, I'm kind of in awe of them. I kind of like love this. I know people like feel differently about this generation. 

Speaker 1: 35:02

I love that generation coming up. Yeah, tell me how do you feel about them. 

Speaker 2: 35:06

I love them. I mean, they're definitely the generation that, like, I've been working with right Since I've entered my this is going to be my 30th year in education, right so they're a generation that are like I've seen grow up and I, I like love them. I feel like they're like they have tattoos, they're doing their own thing. They're like saying I'm not going to go to college for you, I'm going to experience life. You know um, they're out there like sometimes leading the protest, like during COVID they were. You know they're the ones voting, like I feel like they've heard like a message. I mean, definitely there's not in the whole you know um country, but in certain pockets, like like I think they're doing stuff and I'm like out there supporting. I mean, during COVID it was really hard, um, and when the George Floyd thing went out, I was like, well, you know what I got? We got to get out there. And so, uh, linnell and I went out there and we were like with protesting everything, and who I saw were young kids Like they. They're like upset and I'm like cause I'm really worried about our country right now, um, but I'm hoping I like, I don't know, they just give me a lot of hope. You know they're a little bit different and they're the generation I see coming in with like different tattoos, coming with like at least, um, the people I'm seeing like they're at I do interviews for teachers and we do it on a panel and they're coming out Like they're like okay, well, you know, as an LGBTQ, part of the LGBT community, and I was like wow, like in the interview, like I like love, that Like they're owning their identity in a way I haven't ever seen before. 

Speaker 1: 36:51

They're more able to advocate for themselves and their needs in a way that our generation and I'm lumping you and I together, even though we have some years between us, but the way that we weren't, our parents told us to shut up and sit down and we, the ones who raised this generation, are saying stand up for who you are, be who you are. Yeah, it's really beautiful to see them do that. They're so much more aware of themselves, of other people, they're so much less judgy about how people look, how people, how people's bodies are, how people's abilities are. It's really yeah, it's really remarkable, I think. 

Speaker 2: 37:29

Yeah, I'm like I'm excited, I'm excited for them, like I am excited, I want to like be a part of like whatever. I was like, okay, well, you know what, what can I do? Like I'm on the older side but I can see them. So, like I'm like doing interview committees, I've like trying to, like you know, do things to try to mentor them, because you know it's hard coming up and they're excited and how can I like get them into positions of like power or agency in the education world? So I also do mentor teachers and administrators. Besides being elementary principal, I have like a second job that I do with the private university. But, yeah, like I'm into it, I'm like you know, I, I totally like, maybe when I started getting my tattoos is trying, I really like I feel like I'm always learning and I'm really trying to like live my life by the ideals and values that I'm teaching. And this generation like inspires me right, because, like you know, right now, with the whole, like you know, the environment, we've like killing our earth and everything, and they're out there, you know, advocating for this or doing all these things, and I was like, okay, I have to like live that and they inspire me to do it. So you know, as a, I'm trying, I'm trying to, like you know, do my part and I have a lot of hope because we need some help. 

Speaker 1: 39:05

Yeah, yeah, and who better than the people coming right up after us, right? Yeah, I'm so curious about the mentorship piece of what you just said. I feel like I'm entering a stage of my life where younger folks are seeking my mentorship and I'm really happy and excited to be entering that part of my life and, you know, I couldn't have done it some years ago. Like now, I feel like I'm more ready and I have something to share and I have some care to give in a way that I was never able to before. So how long have you been mentoring and like what's the format of how that goes for you? 

Speaker 2: 39:44

So I think probably like last September, there was a position open. It's called the Diversity Leadership Institute and they have an affiliation with Laila Maramount and what they do is it's a program for teachers of color. It's only for teachers of color to get their administrative credential to be principals or superintendents or whatever. And this woman started it and she's like amazing and she thought you know, they have this paper, how like kids of color do better and even like white kids do better when they have models right Of representation. And so her whole idea was like let's get, let's take out some of the barriers. So teachers enter this program and it's completely free for them and you know they do all the coursework and it's like a really. But what they do is they give them a mentor to help them like navigate all through this. And that's like a little bit different because you know you just go to college, you get whatever, and people don't always take into account that people of color sometimes have some different obstacles, especially in education right, it's like pretty dominated by, actually so if it is dominated by like white women, but then when you get into administration is dominated by white men. So I applied and I became a mentor and so it's a pretty official and so I meet with. They assigned me to women of color mentees and I, like you know, meet with them on zoom where we do phone calls and we text and really kind of help them with like things that they're like going to. And some of it is coursework. One of them was like a lot of coursework and getting through the program, but the other mentor she's an assistant principal in Oakland. Like we talked about things. She's like I don't think this lady's listening to me, you know, and I would like tell her okay, you're right, she's totally being like this way and people need to hear that, like that you're not going crazy, imagining things, and that meant I love both of them. But both that mentorship really meant a lot to me, like just kind of making like small little things that she could do to get there, and it's been very rewarding for me. But I also have done mentorship with students who are going through college and kind of like been like a sounding board for them as well. So I like both. Right now I'm trying to, as I'm like getting towards the end of my career, I'm trying to get. I really like what I'm doing right now getting the teachers of color into administrative positions and really trying to change it, cause it was hard. It was really really hard for me. I did like 10 interviews with my own district as a teacher and I kept not getting the position. And I would hear things like you're just not the right fit, or maybe you should concentrate on your children, you know, or just different things. And I'm like what is it? And then, of course, once I got into it, they're like oh, you should have been administrator a long time ago. You're great, right, I've been trying. Yeah, I was like really, you know. And then like and that's how it is, you know, there's just like oh, we just don't know. Like I remember somebody telling me oh, we don't know if we're willing to take the risk for you, and I'm like what is the risk for me, right. And I was like oh, I'm a person of color. 

Speaker 1: 43:23

Yeah, and a woman who might want to, I don't know retire and go lay on the beach in the beginning somewhere. 

Speaker 2: 43:29

Well I just, you know, just it's so hard. So I, the mentorship piece, is like I feel like I can give my experience and really help people do those like problems and also give them like the skills that they need, you know, and try to avoid the pitfalls. I think it's the most rewarding thing. I know it's not the most rewarding thing because I really like being an elementary principal. That's pretty rewarding for kids but it is very rewarding. 

Speaker 1: 43:56

How many mentees do you have at a time and how often do you meet with them? 

Speaker 2: 44:00

Well, right now I just have two and we'll offer summer break, but I was meeting with them like two through times a week. 

Speaker 1: 44:06

Okay. 

Speaker 2: 44:07

But it was text. I'm going to zoom more in person, sorry, go ahead Now through zoom or through like texting or phone calls, yeah, so it was pretty. And then you know like one of them was at a school and I can give my experience on how you know, because not everybody you know, you don't have to, but I do feel like you know administrators of color sometimes you know I could understand like how to reach out and provide like more equitable. You know experiences for students of color and so I try to give them like some of the ideas that I'm doing, because I'm doing ideas that I've always wanted to do and like how can they, you know, start those things as well? 

Speaker 1: 44:55

Do you tend to work with them, primarily in your shoes, that they ask you for? I mean, that makes sense. That's what the relationship is there for, like if they're having an issue, you can help them out, but do you also offer them kind of unsolicited feedback or advice on things you see, maybe that they haven't seen yet, like in their life or in their situation or in their personality or how they deal with things? 

Speaker 2: 45:20

You know I do especially, yeah, I do Cause I don't think they can like see it Like you know they'll just tell me things and everything. And I was like, well, you know what. You need to have a plan, like you know what are you going to do at the end of the year or what are you going to do in two to three years. Cause sometimes I think people just are seeing one one year ahead. You know they're surviving. And I tend to the way I give the advice is they tend to ask a question and I kind of see where their answer is and I'm like, oh, okay, and so you know. And then just I keep asking questions and then I kind of like lead them to when they ask me the question, right, or they're not sure, but I want to see, cause maybe they, you know, they've thought about it. So I do a lot of like leading questions and like, for example, assistant principal is like, well, you know she's, like you know I, really, you know I'm working with this person is really hard and I was like well, where do you see yourself Like in a few years? She's like, well, I want to be a principal and I'm like, well, when you're a principal, you may have a staff and you're not going to get along with every staff member, you're not going to see eye to eye. So do you really want to move this person? Or do you think you can find ways? Cause sometimes you have to find ways to work with people you don't want to work with and who you don't agree with, but they may be an amazing teacher. So you want to keep them on your staff. And so, you know, we kind of walked through that and she was like okay, instead of like just moving her out, like let's figure out some ways, you know, and so I do, do give some of that unsolicited advice. I think that's the part of being a mentor, right. 

Speaker 1: 47:07

Yeah, right, Cause they can otherwise Google the answer or something. I don't know, maybe talk to their therapist. But as a mentor, maybe you get a bit more leeway of what you can offer somebody. That's something that I've been thinking about a bunch, because I guess it's like not a very strict format of how I am doing mentoring of some of the younger folks around me, and so I wonder how much unsolicited advice I can really offer. You know what is fair? Or sometimes people just need to find their own way and come and ask you. 

Speaker 2: 47:40

Well, I think, starting off with like, well, where do you want to be, what are your goals? Right. And then like, what's your plan to get there? And usually, like, if they don't have a plan, they're like, well, if I were you or if this was me, and then you, that's, you know what I mean. Like I think it has to be like something that they want Right. Or like, if it's something that they don't, that I'm like, why do they want that? I'll ask them well, why do you want that? Like, what is it that appeals to you? Like, why do you want to be like a superintendent? Or like, why do you want, why do you want to do that? And you know, like, if it's like monetary, all right, you know, then let's, let's do that, you know, and really, kind of see, or is it like, oh, I really want to help and I'm like, well, if you really want to help, that's not going to help the school district. You know this is more impactful. Or I want to help, like you know. I think you know, really, just trying to find out and asking those questions helps get me to the place where I can give them like advice. 

Speaker 1: 48:43

When I was a little kid and I'd be asked the question of what do you want to be when you grow up, I would always say teacher. But my reasoning you know when you, when you say right now, like you ask, why do you want to do this thing? And my reasoning for that was that I wanted to be able to give people grades because I felt so disempowered in my life as a little kid that I wanted to have the power to judge someone's work, to say you get an A and you get to be happy today and you get a D, and so you get to be miserable today, right and now right, like I kind of can laugh at that little kid and also feel, you know, feel sorry for that little kid who felt so disempowered. You know that they wanted to judge people, to judge other people. You were being judged Cause I was being judged and I was being made miserable by the teachers around me and other adults. But it's interesting to think back on that and be like I at this point in my life, like or even, you know, when I, when I got a little older, I was like I don't want to decide somebody's fate, you know, like that's totally not what I want to do with my life. 

Speaker 2: 49:49

Right, that, yeah, I mean. Well, I think you know somebody like maybe asked you or you know, like, like, okay, like you know, let's, let's look at this right, you can, I think the questions, the why you know, and really getting into, like I think that for me that that is like the most the best tool. Like, whatever I'm working, like even like students, I just like to ask the questions and just try to like like, figure it out. Right, you know, because people like you can assume things like oh, they want to do it for whatever, and you don't know until, like you've asked right and and I think it's for me too, the it's I don't think people asked me a lot of questions like why I was doing things right. You know like, and the funny thing is, I think had people like asked me like I probably would have told them and, you know, I think it's like just sounds terrible, but like it's a level of care right, like they can do the care enough to ask, and that's been always like really important to me. I think like and that's why I'm in education, because I was like there's been so many times where I was like, oh, my goodness, like people need to care and I was like, well, you know what, like kids are super important, there are future, and I Can be there and I can, like, you know, care, I'm a hands-on principal. The kids call me principal Judy and that's that's really important for me, like making that connection, knowing that somebody cares. Like I don't know everybody's home life, but when they come to my school they know that like I care and they can come to me. 

Speaker 1: 51:27

Right, that's the way they know. That you care is because you ask the why, because you're curious to go beyond what's in front of you. 

Speaker 2: 51:34

Yeah, one of the things that I do is I go to every student's home and I meet them at their. I meet their parents. If they want to, they don't have to have me at their home. I call in, I like make an appointment and we go. But I feel like that Gives them and me and the family like I care about you. We're gonna have a relationship. This is important. And then it gives like families who you know Don't have a voice. I'm there and they can ask me anything they want, or Tell me anything or say something that they may not want to say in like a general meeting and I do. I go in like I have like 10 questions and I don't know why I always go to like sets of 10, but I'm like I go through my 10 questions and I never get through each question, usually like on the question like two or three it stopped and we have a whole conversation and I find out like a lot about the families you know, um can you give an example of a couple of your questions? um, okay. So, um, I go, you know, I go in and I'm like okay, so you know, thank you very much, like you know, and you know you do the like niceties and I was like oh, okay, like um, like you know. So I'll just say um, so Micah, you know, is like great third grade student, like um, what do you, what do you, what do you want this year to be for her? Mm-hmm and Like sometimes, like the parents sometimes don't know, like they all talk about themselves, or sometimes they're like, oh, we want to. You know they. I'm like, oh, okay, that's interesting. And I'm like and like you know, what do? What do you? What do you? How do you think that she's gonna need support to To get there? Like, what do, what can we do together? And like those are the questions that I don't think they've like thought about it. You know what I mean. Like I think there's like all this, like the things that they have to go through, or like they're gonna go. You know, sometimes the kids are there and sometimes they're not, and so I'll ask the kid, okay, like what is your favorite thing about school? Right, what would you change? And then when the change question and I'm like why the kids, like the kids come prepared, like they know I'm coming, and they're like there are the yeah, and I'm like why you know, and that after every question is the why. So I asked them those sort of like you know, questions and then the one of the questions I got them like what, what? What do you? How do you see my role in changing the school? Like, what do you? How do you want me to be there for you? Hmm? and then usually it's not even about me. It's about what they think the whole school is, but I represent that mm-hmm. Just not, you know what I mean. Like yeah, that's, that's beautiful. Yeah and so those are some of the questions I have and it's it's been really like For me powerful, like it's really giving me an insight because I, I could go in and I don't like people telling me what I need to do, like that's a. I do not like to be told what to do and I Didn't want to go into my school and assume that I needed that I knew what families wanted. I, you know, I wanted to give the families what they wanted, but I couldn't assume that until they were all asked, because what I want might not Be what they want right, and so I don't want to tell them to do these things and that's not even what they want right. And so I went back to my staff and We've made goals on what we all want together, like where are our commonalities right? So we're not like the staff and I could be doing one thing and the families one another and the students one another, and then it doesn't work, yeah. 

Speaker 1: 55:41

Yeah, how much longer do you want to do this work, like do you want to retire at some point? 

Speaker 2: 55:47

I do. I actually am gonna retire in six years okay right, we've worked out all the financials and, however, I want to retire from being elementary school principal and I want to, like, teach, like in the university level, teachers who want to become. 

Speaker 1: 56:10

Administrator to continue basically the other job that you have, but at a higher. 

Speaker 2: 56:15

Yeah, I love a class and just see like how long I could do that, because that's like not every single day, it's like once, maybe once or twice a week. But I do want to Retire in six years. I want to move back to the Los Angeles area. 

Speaker 1: 56:33

Oh, you do okay. 

Speaker 2: 56:35

Yeah, I'm not just it's, it's a little bit, and I think it's just because I live like on the peninsula. It's not for me as like Okay, I don't know, I just feel more comfortable in the yellow yeah, that makes sense. 

Speaker 1: 56:52

Yeah, returning to one's roots yeah. So by the time you're like 65 or 70, how much of your body do you want to have tattooed? 

Speaker 2: 57:03

Oh, Well, the funny thing is I you had talked about finger tattoos the last time and so this weekend there was like a little festival in my town and they had a henna and Nobody was at this woman's boots. So I went and got like a henna, nice, and I I was like I love this. I like, when I retire, my gift to myself is I'm gonna have Micah do my hand, yeah, and then I'll move on. I, I probably would like I was thinking like I don't know, like one whole leg, one whole arm. I like the idea of Like not balanced, you know. Do you mean like one arm? Not want? You know what I mean. So about having my whole back, one full sleeve, what do you call it? Is it a leg? You know, like your, when your whole leg is no leg, sleeve I people say oh, I was a leg sleeve, yeah, like that. I think people say that yeah, yeah, yeah, a pants. 

Speaker 1: 58:14

But people, nobody says a pants. 

Speaker 2: 58:17

Right, so you have a lot like you have still have a lot Like you have still have a lot of work to do with. 

Speaker 1: 58:23

You're with me for at least the next six years. What about your chest? 

Speaker 2: 58:28

I Do have some like Chest pieces I would like, I Would like, like my, my whole stomach area. 

Speaker 1: 58:39

Oh yeah, okay. 

Speaker 2: 58:41

I want like, and you know like. Well, I want like I'm not exactly sure, but I want like an Really like old, kind of like Latino Chicano kind of like tattoo, like where it goes across like your stomach, right. 

Speaker 1: 58:56

I couldn't like in lettering you're talking about letter. Yes, yeah, they get lettering, but I would like English or something. 

Speaker 2: 59:03

Yeah, something like I do. I've always like wanted with. That's actually the tattoo I always wanted, like I love the way like it looked. But you know, like a lot of them are also like I don't want in, like the Virgin Mary or like you know they have like religious symbols and they're like I do have like something that you know like a couple of like ideas, like some really powerful words. I think words are very powerful, but I haven't like settled on it yet, so I'm at okay, I have like favorite words or favorite like sayings and stuff, and so I have like three that keep on coming up and so, but I would, I would like like an old English. So you have to start practicing like. 

Speaker 1: 59:49

But I have done a couple of those types of tattoos. 

Speaker 2: 59:52

Yeah, that's so. Yeah, so I'd like like all, like the chest and everywhere Obsessed with the hand tattoos. 

Speaker 1: 1:00:02

Fun. I love having hand tattoos. It's so beautiful, so I Like it a lot and you just get to see it all the time, like it's a constant reminder of all the other tattoos that you have. 

Speaker 2: 1:00:17

It is, leaves, it is, it is, and I know, like your idea, because I want my underwater Medusa tattoo, and I was like I think I do want to see it. I actually was talking to my hairdresser and I was telling her that I was like, oh, I could tell me that I shouldn't have it on my back, that I should have it on my leg. And when you told me that I don't think you realize, but I like really thought about it, I was like you know, and she, and because you said, oh, because you can see it, and I was like you know, you know, because Medusa tattoos come like Typically in my case, it's true, you know like with some kind of like sexual trauma, and I was like maybe Micah didn't even know, but she was telling me that I have to like face it hmm, that's, that's intense. 

Speaker 1: 1:01:15

Yeah, if you're, I feel like that's something you want to do, yeah. 

Speaker 2: 1:01:20

Yeah, and I was like but so sometimes you say things and and for me that's what, like it's also very like spiritual to get a tattoo because, like you are putting art on my body, I'm like there, I'm in a very vulnerable position. And then you like say things and I like think about it, because I think words have a lot of power. So, like I came and I was talking to Natalie and she was like, is that what you think? And I'm like, yeah, I think I'm ready. I think I'm ready to face it and I see the tattoo is mean that I have like forgiven myself, because I think you know, women go through that you have to forgive yourself. Hmm, it's not like a warning, it's for me and Medusa is a protector right. 

Speaker 1: 1:02:04

She turns to stone the ones who sin against you. I don't know if that's the wording one would use, but I feel like she turns people to stone. So it's like if someone this, if someone's coming to harm you, she's there to turn into stone. 

Speaker 2: 1:02:23

Yeah, and I was reading somewhere and I and I don't know where I read it, so I'm hoping that I'm getting it right, but it was saying that, like Medusa is being like reworked, she's the female gaze. Hmm and I was like I kind of like it, like when I heard that. 

Speaker 1: 1:02:39

I was like, oh, the female gaze, because we're all about like the male gaze, you know, like yeah, I know it's a great opposition to the male gaze, but interestingly she is Generally depicted with no eyes. Right, they're empty. No, well, there's eyes but there's no um iris in the eye. There's no Dark part of the eye, it's just the white part of the eye. Yeah, so I gaze in a really different sense, where there's no Part of the eye that's looking at you. 

Speaker 2: 1:03:13

But you know, what I was thinking is, like many of the artists who did a remail, like you know, sculptors and, and I think, like I like the idea of her get it, taking her like, taking her back. You know, like I was reading that she was like depicted as like very ugly and I was like what is that? What do you mean? Like she, like, just, I don't think that's ugly, you know what I mean. Or, like you know, trying to Like, I think, the whole idea of taking it, like her back, like does she? Maybe she does have like the iris, but they just can't bear to like create it. You know, I don't know, I feel like when you're there you'll see if that's what you think, but I do know, I mean, I've been reading a lot about it and I was like, oh, when they turned her into stone, she actually mothered two children and I didn't know that One is Pegasus and the other's a warrior and I was like, oh, I didn't realize that and I was like I don't know, just been really into it. That's what I read all through my Asian, yeah, and I was like Pegasus, I didn't, you know, because that's definitely like a mythological thing. I was like I did not know that Medusa was the mother. It was something like new and I was like, you know, it was just like really interesting. But yeah, so I mean talking about my tattoo journey, like the words that are spoken or things. You know it has an impact, and obviously not like if you're going to go to get like a flash tattoo because I want to do that, just because I'm not. I was like I want to get like a little flash tattoo somewhere and I was like I could say that I had one Right, because I was like because my daughter's like oh, your tattoos are so like deep and meaningful and she like got like a little chicken and she's like they're fine. 

Speaker 1: 1:05:22

You can get a silly tattoo, either from me or somebody else, and you will. You have space, you have time. You're welcome to get a silly tattoo. 

Speaker 2: 1:05:31

Yeah, and I was like, but the funny thing is I was like, oh you know, I'll get like a little cartoon, and then I like think deeply about it and I'm like that I don't think. I think that's not the idea of a flash. 

Speaker 1: 1:05:41

No, you know what I just thought about when you said a flash, that you wanted a little silly flash tattoo. I thought of a goldfish, like those chips, little goldfish chips, oh yeah, yeah, like the little snacks. You got a goldfish on your arm. 

Speaker 2: 1:05:54

Oh yeah, do something like that. Like is it like my daughter's always making fun of me? Like you know? They're like come on, mom, you know I was a tough mom. I think they're like everything has to have like the meaning and you know, like this and that. And so I was like, okay, I need to be a little bit more spontaneous. 

Speaker 1: 1:06:10

I mean, we've done some spontaneous stuff on your arm, you've let me do, kind of whatever it is. I do feel like, yeah, I don't feel like everything is so deeply meaningful. Yeah, yes, you can even go and do a thing with the kids together. You can get a fun little flash piece with them. 

Speaker 2: 1:06:33

I always back out. At the end I'm like no. I think I was like. I know that's why I was like. I was like no, because like we're in Chicago and Boston or anything. I was like no. Even when we were in Ireland. I was like I'll get a tattoo in Ireland. I could say it got an Ireland and I was like just thinking too deeply about it. 

Speaker 1: 1:06:50

So and honestly, it's not a bad thing to think about it too deeply. I went and got some random tattoos in Ireland and the guy was kind of like it was like a man experience. You know, it wasn't great. So it's okay to have the people you go to the standards you have. You know, like I feel like whenever I veer away from that, from being like I know that you know I go to a hannah she does amazing work. I'll go to Corey he does amazing work Like I don't need to go somewhere else. Yeah, I mean I could and I probably will someday again, but like I also don't need to. 

Speaker 2: 1:07:27

Yeah, it's, it's. I think like I've gotten spoiled because I like like the whole ambiance, you know it makes me feel at ease. And like when people, like people who know me, I was like I don't like to be touched, I'm not a hugger, but I have a lot of tattoos because I feel safe. So I think that's probably it with the flash. But I was like I do want something silly. So like maybe the next time I go in just put like something silly and I don't even tell me I can, we can be. 

Speaker 1: 1:08:00

I've wanted to do fish bones. I've wanted to fish bone tattoo for a while, just also for a silly reason. Like no, like there's no meaning, but you know, it's like a little fish skeleton with a little fish head and the fish tail and little bones. I love that shit. Little tiny or like a little banana peel or something. Anyway, can do. 

Speaker 2: 1:08:20

I just surprised me and then I'll be like I was surprised. It has like no meaning. 

Speaker 1: 1:08:25

We can do that. That's a lot of that. Um, well, here we're coming to the end of our session. I'm going to ask you my standard question that I ask everybody at the end, and that is what is a small, tiny thing that's been making you happy lately? 

Speaker 2: 1:08:48

A small, tiny thing that's making me happy. It's actually my dog. So we have two dogs One is primarily my husband's and one is primarily mine's peanut. But it's not peanut, it's my husband's dog. His name is Roscoe and he was an abused dog. I feel like a rescuer and he wasn't always like into me, like you know. He was definitely one of those dogs, but he like something changed. He has been jumping up on the bed in the morning which my husband does not appreciate and coming and asking for pets from me and it's a new behavior that started this summer and it's the smallest thing and the funny thing is like the way he does. It is he like put on his paw and he puts his head down and he looks like he's like asking for forgiveness, he just wants to be pet and that's it. Like just that small, like connection with, like this dog and I just love him like, and you know, and he's not my dog primarily, but that's the smallest thing and it's happening every morning and it makes me really happy. 

Speaker 1: 1:09:58

It makes me happy to hear that. That's really sweet. Thank you for coming on the podcast. Thank you for being one of my longest term clients, if not the longest term client that I can think of. It's always a joy to see you. It's always a joy to work on you and talk to you. I really love this relationship that we have. It's really meaningful and important to me. I appreciate you. 

Speaker 2: 1:10:24

Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate you too. Yeah, I consider you like a really like I don't know when, but I was like Mike is like my friend and then she's your tattooist. I'm like, no, we're friends and I really appreciate you. I look forward to like every month and I'm like I save, like like stories not stories, but I save things that I feel need to come out and, even if I don't always like say them, like I'm thinking them, because you this like safe, warm place and I feel very comfortable and I hope to be like your longest client, like, even if I move to LA, like I'm going to fly up and you're going to tattoo my body until you retire. 

Speaker 1: 1:11:05

I love that we show up in the tattoo room, regardless where we live. 

Speaker 2: 1:11:11

Yeah, wherever we live, I was like it's because like this is like like a journey, because, like I said, we're a temporary thing here on the earth and I would like to create art on my body until you know, until it's no longer my time to be here.